Talk:EAA-PHEV - Revision history

68.151.159.201: /* Energy Effeciency */

2006-02-13T18:56:24Z

Energy Effeciency

68.151.159.201: /* Energy Effeciency */

2006-02-13T18:55:51Z

Energy Effeciency

Rjf: {{TOCright}}

2006-02-09T03:44:33Z

Rjf: Valence update

2006-02-09T03:42:28Z

Valence update

Rjf: PHEV ratings, moved from User:Rjf/Prius Modifications

2006-02-09T03:19:58Z

PHEV ratings, moved from User:Rjf/Prius Modifications

Rjf: maillist interwiki, pollution moved

2006-02-02T10:51:39Z

maillist interwiki, pollution moved

Rjf: pollution

2006-01-24T10:13:40Z

pollution

Rjf: Reverted edit of 209.159.175.130, changed back to last version by Rjf

2006-01-19T23:09:27Z

Reverted edit of 209.159.175.130, changed back to last version by Rjf

209.159.175.130: THE PERFECT ELECTRIC CAR

2006-01-19T19:43:08Z

THE PERFECT ELECTRIC CAR

Rjf: /* PHEV Suplemental Battery Pack: 12 questions - some answers */

2006-01-05T11:15:49Z

PHEV Suplemental Battery Pack: 12 questions - some answers

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:56, 13 February 2006
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−	===Energy ~~Effeciency~~===	+	===Energy Efficiency===
	Need links for items addressing '''well to wheel''', '''pump to pavement''', or '''cradle to grave''' energy efficiency.		Need links for items addressing '''well to wheel''', '''pump to pavement''', or '''cradle to grave''' energy efficiency.

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 ===Energy Effeciency===
-Need links for items addressing '''well to wheel''', '''pump to pavement''', or '''cradle to grave''' energy effeciency.
+Need links for items addressing '''well to wheel''', '''pump to pavement''', or '''cradle to grave''' energy efficiency.
 ===Plugging in===

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-<div style="float: right; margin-left: 20px">__TOC__</div>
+{{TOCright}}
 You can [http://www.seattleeva.org/index.php?title=Talk:EAA-PHEV&action=edit&section=new Post]
@@ Line 36: / Line 36: @@
 *What is the ratio of gasoline to electric when any one of these is not met? It sounds like it is controlled by only the SOC, but I’m not sure.
-=== PHEV Suplemental Battery Pack: 12 questions - some answers ===
+=== PHEV Suplemental Battery Pack===
 Howdy,

@@ Line 56: / Line 56: @@
 . Cobasys batteries are not for sale anywhere.
-. Cycle life has not been well tested for most of these batteries because they haven't been around very long.  For example, the Valence U charge lithium battery is supposed to be good for 2000 cycles to 20 % SOC but they have only been available for a few months so nobody has put that many cycles on them yet.  Some folks think this claim of 2000 cycles is not real.
+. Cycle life has not been well tested for most of these batteries because they haven't been around very long.  For example, the [[Li#Valence|Valence]] U charge lithium battery is supposed to be good for 2000 cycles to 20 % SOC but they have only been available for a few months so nobody has put that many cycles on them yet.  Some folks think this claim of 2000 cycles is not real.
 , 5, 8.  If you have a Prius, you can check the storage area above the spare tire yourself to see how much room there is for the batteries.  If not, there are some photos that Ron took that I can post to the PHEV SIG website later that show this area filled with the lead acid electric bicycle batteries (I think he is using 18 of them in two rows of 9 each).  This gives a nominal voltage of 216 for the pack.  By the way, that is what determines the number of cells.  Multiply the voltage per cell by the number of cells to arrive at a voltage of around 216 V.   The idea is to fool the Toyota computer into thinking it is looking at the original Prius battery pack.  Too low of a voltage and the gasoline motor will turn on to charge the battery pack.  Too high a voltage and the pack will not be used at all because Toyota designed it to stay no higher than 80% SOC and they think it will be overcharged.
@@ Line 71: / Line 71: @@
 Jerry
-P.S.  - Ron has just replaced the pack on his Prius with another lead acid pack since the first one was already showing signs of wearing out.  He showed my some photos taken during the swap out last week that are still in his camera.   He also recently sent out an email saying they expect a NiMH pack from an east coast company specifically designed for the Prius Plus in the next few months.  Hopefully that is the pack that we will be able to use for the rest of those who want to do this conversion.  The Valence Lithium batteries will also work (that is what E-Drive plans to use) but the cost is much higher than the NiMH. Let me know if you didn't see that email and I can forward it to you.
+P.S.  - Ron has just replaced the pack on his Prius with another lead acid pack since the first one was already showing signs of wearing out.  He showed my some photos taken during the swap out last week that are still in his camera.   He also recently sent out an email saying they expect a NiMH pack from an east coast company specifically designed for the Prius Plus in the next few months.  Hopefully that is the pack that we will be able to use for the rest of those who want to do this conversion.  The [[Li#Valence|Valence]] Lithium batteries will also work (that is what E-Drive plans to use) but the cost is much higher than the NiMH. Let me know if you didn't see that email and I can forward it to you.
 ----- Original Message -----

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:19, 9 February 2006
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	Richard		Richard
		+
		+
		+	== PHEV Ratings ==
		+	A '''PHEV''' is a '''P'''lug-in '''H'''ybrid '''E'''lectric '''V'''ehicle, usuaily also augmented with a -## that denotes it's BEV range, a PHEV-20 would have a 20 mile range on electricity before gassoline would be required.
		+
		+	There has been a lot of discussion on rescent "250 mpg" claims from the Prius+ folks and/or the press and media from people who point out the lack of consideration for the electric fuel that skews those mileage figures. I
		+	[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gridable-hybrids/message/1821 Posted] this and it's the latest summary of the whole situation.
		+
		+	* http://groups.yahoo.com/group/priusplus/message/488
		+	* http://www.hev.utulsa.edu
		+	* http://www.tourdesol.org
		+	* http://www.challengex.org
		+	* http://www.team-fate.net
		+	* http://www.edrivesystems.com
		+	* http://www.calcars.org
		+	* http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour
		+	** MPGe =
		+	** [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Dr.+Frank%22+%2B+%22UC+Davis%22 Google "Dr. Frank" + "UC Davis"] 810
		+	** [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Dr.+Frank%22+%2B+%22UC+Davis%22+%2B+vehicle Google "Dr. Frank" + "UC Davis" + vehicle] 373
		+	** [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Dr.+Frank%22+%2B+%22UC+Davis%22+%2B+hybrid+%2B+vehicle+%2B+rating Google "Dr. Frank" + "UC Davis" + hybrid + vehicle + rating] 77
		+	** [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Dr.+Frank%22+%2B+%22UC+Davis%22+%2B+%22Tour+Del+Sol%22 Google "Dr. Frank" + "UC Davis" + "Tour Del Sol"] 1 - http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress
		+
		+	''Prepair for a Tangent !''<br>
		+	--- In priusplus@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Strattan" wrote:<br>
		+	> This then gves a more accurate indication of the fuel<br>
		+	> economy related back to raw energy used from fossil fuel sources.<br>
		+
		+	Wouldn't it be interesting to use raw solar energy as the original<br>
		+	source and then re-run the analysis. Here's what I came up with:
		+	* Solar Energy->Wind->EV Transportation= 36.000% Effecient
		+	* Solar Energy->PV->EV Transportation == 10.400% Effecient
		+	* Solar Energy->FF->ICE Transportation = 0.0008% Effecient + Time
		+	** So BEV's might be considered 45,000 times more effecient.
		+	*** http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/10433
		+	*** http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2004-prius/message/29200
		+
		+
		+	----
		+
		+	I can see both sides of the argument, some prefer to consider the electric energy usage seperately since it's properties, like Cost, CO2, and Effeciency vary far more than gassoline. Some people may even generate their own electricity, in which case their electric energy is essentially free once the initial investment in the collection technologies is paid off.
		+
		+
		+	Here's [http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-2G/message/41311]
		+	what I've come up with.
		+
		+	=== My PHEV empg ( unofficial ) ===
		+	[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gridable-hybrids/message/1821 This] Is a far better explanation.
		+	I use $0.06/kWh. The Prius achieves 3 miles per kWh and 50 mpg.
		+	I'm using 33.6kWh/gal to calculate kWh '''E'''quivilant mpg or '''empg'''.
		+	Calculation formula is:<br>
		+	Total Distance - PHEV-Range = Distance using Gassoline.<br>
		+	Distance using Gassoline / gas mpg = Gassoline Consumption.<br>
		+	Gassoline Consumption + kWh gas equivilant / Total Distance = empg.
		+
		+	*PHEV-20 (6.6 kWh, $0.40) = 0.2 gas gal equivilant
		+	**Total Distance, Gassoline used = Empg / mpg (electricity considered seperately)
		+	**20 miles uses 0.00 gas gal = 100 empg / Inf mpg
		+	**40 miles uses 0.40 gas gal = 67 empg / 100 mpg
		+	**60 miles uses 0.80 gas gal = 60 empg / 75 mpg
		+	**80 miles uses 1.20 gas gal = 57 empg / 80 mpg
		+	**100 miles uses 1.60 gas gal = 55 empg / 62 mpg
		+
		+	*PHEV-40 (13.3kWh, $0.80) = 0.4 gas gal equivilant
		+	**20 miles uses 0.00 gas gal = 100 empg / Inf mpg
		+	**40 miles uses 0.00 gas gal = 100 empg / Inf mpg
		+	**60 miles uses 0.40 gas gal = 75 empg / 150 mpg
		+	**80 miles uses 0.80 gas gal = 66 empg / 100 mpg
		+	**100 miles uses 1.20 gas gal = 62 empg / 83 mpg
		+
		+	*PHEV-80 (26.6kWh, $1.60) = 0.8 gas gal equivilant
		+	**80 miles uses 0.00 gas gal = 100 empg / Inf mpg
		+
		+	Note also that various vehicles with achieve different miles/kWh and mpg.
		+	The ACP T-Zero achieves 6miles/kWh and ~30mpg.
		+	...T-Zero table...

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 You can [http://www.seattleeva.org/index.php?title=Talk:EAA-PHEV&action=edit&section=new Post]
-any comments, questions, or suggestions regarding this article here on this [[Talk:EAA-PHEV|discussion]] page.<br>
+any comments, questions, or suggestions regarding this article here on this [[Talk:EAA-PHEV|discussion]] page.
-Please note that this page is not the [http://www.seattleeva.org/maillist/eaa-phev.html eaa-phev Maillist Archive].
+Please note that this page is not the [[EAA-PHEV_Maillist:]].
 ==FAQ==
 These should be fleshed out and may eventually warrant their own page, for now they live here.
 ===Energy Effeciency===

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 These should be fleshed out and may eventually warrant their own page, for now they live here.
-===Pollution & Climate===
+===[[Pollution]] & Climate===
-Need links for items addressing BEV/ICE Pollution (Tailpipes and smokestacks)
+Need links for items addressing BEV/ICE [[pollution]] (Tailpipes and smokestacks)
 * http://www.evadc.org/pwrplnt.pdf

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:09, 19 January 2006
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	Richard		Richard
−
−	~~== THE PERFECT ELECTRIC CAR ==~~
−
−
−
−	== == ''' [[Media:A team of researchers have put heads together to bring out a modified car which makes use of no fuel, and can work for as long as the user wants.A lot of other researchers probably needs the technology to be supplied to different automobile companies to start to manufacture them.These vehicles will have been in use and imported to other parts of the world by 2006-November.This will lead to a reduction in the price of most commodities, that have before now relied on expensive fuels for distribution and also cause a reduction in the transport cos especially in developing countries.
−	~~for more information, call +23408025234027 or jeremiahezomo@yahoo.com''' ==]] ==~~

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:43, 19 January 2006
Line 126:		Line 126:

	Richard		Richard
		+
		+	== THE PERFECT ELECTRIC CAR ==
		+
		+
		+
		+	== == ''' [[Media:A team of researchers have put heads together to bring out a modified car which makes use of no fuel, and can work for as long as the user wants.A lot of other researchers probably needs the technology to be supplied to different automobile companies to start to manufacture them.These vehicles will have been in use and imported to other parts of the world by 2006-November.This will lead to a reduction in the price of most commodities, that have before now relied on expensive fuels for distribution and also cause a reduction in the transport cos especially in developing countries.
		+	for more information, call +23408025234027 or jeremiahezomo@yahoo.com''' ==]] ==