Cost of Production Electric Vehicles

[LEAQA]

Can someone give some insight regarding the high cost of electric vehicles that are coming out in 2010?  Compared to gas cars, they are expensive.  I think the cost will leave out at least 80% of the buying public.  I would like to understand this issue more instead of just complaining about it.

I think most middle class families can't buy a $40,000 car.  But it is hard for them to buy $4 a gallon gas as well.

Gas/electric hybrids are probably the solution for a long while. 

[tomsax]

First, batteries are expensive, especially the lithium ion batteries that have enough energy per unit weight to make a long-range EVs possible. Of course I'd be very happy with a 100-mile range NiMH-based RAV4-EV.

Second, new technology and low-volume production is expensive. That's why Tesla is starting their EV production with a high-end sports car that competes with low-production ICE vehicles, and is quite cost competitive in that category.

Third, ICE vehicles are only cheap because the owners don't have to pay for the damage their cars are doing to the planet.

In the larger scheme, it doesn't matter much that the 2010 EVs are too expensive for 80% of the buyers - production won't be high enough to sell to more than a small fraction of new car buyers no matter what the price is. High demand plus low supply equals high prices regardless of the underlying technology and production costs. Of course, it's still pretty annoying to those who want an EV but can't afford the cost premium. As the technology is perfected, battery chemistry and production costs improve, production ramps up, and competition increases, EVs will get less expensive.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't complain! Let the auto companies know you want an EV. EV technology should be 10 years ahead of where it is. There's no excuse for the short-sightedness of the auto industry who killed the electric cars mandated by the California Air Resources Board in the late 1990s.

As much as we love our 2001 Honda Insight, hybrids seem like a terrible compromise. Why cripple an EV by making it carry around an ICE with all of the associated maintenance costs? All we need is a reasonable way to rent efficient ICE/electric hybrid vehicles for the occasional road trip then nearly everyone would have their daily needs met by a 100-mile range EV.

The AFS Trinity modified Saturn VUE is a gas/electric hybrid that can go 40 miles on pure electric, at an additional cost of about $7,000 (they claim). That would be a decent hybrid. (They also say it would take 3 years to put it into production.) This plan for a plug-in Prius that only goes 7 miles on electric and doesn't come out until 2010 is shameful.

[aviken]

It's unfortunate that car prices have gotten so out of hand. The truth is, it's hard to get a good car for under 20k. The Toyota Camry is one exception, there are others I'm sure.

Now there is something to think about here. I have heard for years that the average purchaser of a new car purchases a new car ever 3 years. I don't know if that is still true, but if it is, then they never pay it off, they just up their payments for the next model. I think the kinds of people that do that (not me!) pay $25k and up for their vehicles. Part of depends on where you live etc. I know in Redmond where I live, folks spend WAY too much on their cars. About a third of the cars in my kids school parking lot are 45k or more, easy. A Toyota 4 Runner is common - not fancy, but not budget wise either. New ones MSRP for about 29k, but are seldom sold for less than 32k.

The bottom line is that a lot of people have gotten in the habit of spending a lot of money on their cars...

[LEAQA]

Thanks for the helpful info.  I already have a car that I can keep for long distances, and will look for one to bop around town.  If it could go 50-100 miles on a charge, that would more than meet my needs.

[tomlong10]

I had the good luck to drive a Honda EV electric vehicle to work for nearly 2 years.  I worked for Pacific Gas and Electric and was picked to test this car in the late 90s.  It was all electric, it had a lot of power, it felt great to drive, and it made a wonderful town car.  My comute was 35 miles each way so I was on the edge of range for regular drving.  Normally I had 2 or 3 people with me.

Charging this car at night worked very well for the utility electric system which has lots of cheap power available at night.  One day customers will be billed for power depending on when they use it which is how utilities pay for it but first we all need the new meters.

Honda took those cars back and destroyed them I think.  I would buy on those cars today if Honda would make them again.

Tom

[StorminN]

I think most middle class families can't buy a $40,000 car.  But it is hard for them to buy $4 a gallon gas as well.

LEAQA,

Part of this is the way we look at it... the example I like to give is: If I offered to sell you a $6,000 cell phone, would you buy it? What if I said you could make 1,200 minutes worth of calls with it every month for free, for 10 years? Yeah, still most people would not buy it... however, lots of people pay $50 a month to have a cell phone, and over 10 years, that's $6,000.

We are a society that has become accustomed to monthly payments.

-Norm.

[leitmotif]

Norm

Many of the financial advisors comment that Americans dont have the sense to look at how much those monthly payments cost.  Much of this is thanks to the banks, retail industry and Madison Ave who pay lots of money to shrinks and make more money from the stupidity of the huddled and stupid masses.

Dan Bentler

[aviken]

If more people thought about the monthly payments, they wouldn't be in so much debt, and they wouldn't have signed on to so many bad mortgages that can't handle a 2 percent increase in interest rates.  Business - espcially online biz has gone more and more to subscription based. I remember thinking that RealNetworks was nuts when years ago they wanted to charge a monthly fee - for a subscription to it's music services. But look at Netflix now. And Amazon prime? I'm a member...I also pay a monthly fee to monitor my credit (which is really a GREAT investment)...then there is Prepaid Legal...the list goes on.

I have rented storage units for the last 2 years...just trimmed down to "1". If it was just me, I wouldn't have one, but we have a family, and we moved into a smaller place, while we build our dream home...and building in King Co takes like forever and a day...especially if you live in unincorporated king county, and have wetlands, and a well, and septic...

For what I've paid in storage fees the last 2 years, I could have purchased a 14 x 10 portable storage (wood framed), including delivery. I would have enough money left over to insulate, put in power for lights & a heater for the winter, and otherwise seal it up make it so that moisture didn't affect the contents.

I just think half of what's in there is trash, and I don't want to buy something to hold it all, as it will get dwindled down "someday"...when I have time to sort it out. Yikes...