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Author Topic: Non-standard efficient diesel and Neil Young's LincVolt and questions  (Read 2795 times)
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v8media
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« Topic Start: November 05, 2008, 06:04:46 pm »

This guy Jonathan Goodwin, seems like he's doing some pretty cool stuff with fairly normal tech, although I've been hoping for more information.  Anyone know how you would go about the injection of hydrogen or natural gas into a normal diesel system?
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html?page=0%2C0

The same guy is working with Neil Young to try to get his 5000 lb '59 Lincoln up over the 100 mpg mark.  Sounds like they're at 60 mpg now using an RX7 engine (that original got 25 mpg if lucky), after the batteries are drained of their 80-100 mile range.
http://www.lincvolt.com/
video of the car being presented at a kind of painful keynote conference, but still the most information I've found on the car
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13953_3-10081362-80.html

Which gets me to my questions:
Is there a forum or mailing list for doing serial electric powered by a small efficient engine, or is it just Neil Young and Jonathan Goodwin?  (and Fisker and Chevy)
Anyone recognize the 75 kW generator Neil Young used in his car or have one to suggest?  I'm looking at getting one of the small VW turbo-diesels from a wrecked VW Polo from Europe.  Gets 58+ mpg in that car and puts out 75 kW of power.  There is potentially one with a little less horsepower, puts out around 50 kW.  Although, writing that, I'm recalling that people have used detuned VW beetle engines, which means these could be way into overkill territory, unless the beetle engines aren't spec'd for full time use, just getting additional miles.  I'm looking for good emissions though as well as the ability to push a serial electric vehicle, so I want a recent efficient European engine.  All I've seen so far are reasons why this won't work, and only these two guys and Chevy and Fisker saying that it will.

Does anyone know if that rating is the same as the type of rating on a 75 kW generator one might couple to an engine or propeller for wind power?

Would I need some crazy (or potentially very simple) converter box in order to take the generator output straight to the normal EV controller in order to power the motor?  Or do I need the batteries in there as a buffer?  How do trains do this?  I'm fairly sure they have no buffer at all.
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leitmotif
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« Reply #1: November 05, 2008, 08:41:29 pm »

Diesel electric drive as used in rail marine etc use a large engine and generator whose output (HP Kw pick your rating) will meet the demand of the load - in the case of rail it is the total of the drive motors.

Why have a diesel driving a generator then driving a motor - throw out the motor and the generator and do diesel direct with a transmission.

Auto HP is not same as motor HP.  A 75 HP electric motor will probablyt stall out a 75 HP Detroit rated auto engine and maybe drive it in reverse.

Allow a 2:1 margin for Detroit hype.
Dan Bentler
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v8media
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« Reply #2: November 06, 2008, 02:51:38 pm »

My understanding of why Chevy is making the Volt a serial hybrid was both the ability to power it with anything, because the generation or storage is separate from the driveline, but also the inherent efficiency of motors compared to engines.  I guess what I want to try is to get some really efficient, low emissions engine to test out what the reality is.  I also see this as being inherently cheaper than making an electric car, with the big plus that you can then add a battery pack later when you have more money.

Or, since the car I have is just over 3000 lbs, should I look for a European diesel (and maybe transmission) with that weight that gets good mileage?  Not much reason against that, that I can think of.  I guess, besides the fact that you can't add batteries later on when you have more cash.

So if it requires fairly strong power from a 150 HP to turn a 75 HP motor, it would potentially be at high revs then?  That probably wouldn't be more efficient than just using the diesel.  I guess I would have to figure out what mpg those cars get at 80-90 mph to see how well they would do in this situation.  And nobody gets that great of mileage at 90 mph.  So what are they doing differently in the Chevy Volt or LincVolt in order to get 50 mpg?  Sounds like they are using some 1.4 L engine from one of their European cars as the powerplant.

What is the connection method people that have done pusher trailers use?  When you have a bank of batteries, are the motor and engine/generator (if you had one) just like another piece of the pack, but pulling out and putting in power instead of just storing it?

And thanks for entertaining my questions, Ian
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leitmotif
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« Reply #3: November 06, 2008, 10:43:55 pm »

I think you need to sit down and decide what this car is supposed to do for you.
OK so far all I know is it is 3,000 lb AND you want to save money.

What is your desired range?  Desired speed?  Average speed?  Hill climbing capability?  Acceleration?

Dan Bentler
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v8media
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« Reply #4: November 08, 2008, 05:13:59 am »

It might end up being just a brain exercise.  But I figure if GM can make a 3500 lb car like the Volt get 50 mpg using this method, I should be able to do a hackjob attempt at the same thing and come somewhere close.  I just need to figure out a general place to start experiments from.

Maybe find something like a small rear wheel drive pickup with a small 4 cylinder engine.  Fairly cheap, gets me the mule and the engine, and I would have room to pop in a motor straight to the differential, and a generator where the drive shaft normally connects to the engine, and I could even put the drive shaft back on and sell it when I'm done with it.

One major thing that I have no idea about is how to hook the engine/generator up to the ev controller.  I see that the Z1k has "variable" input with a range of amps and a range of volts.  It can handle a pack dropping in voltage 10-30 volts over the course of a charge, but those voltages would be steady one second to the next, can it or a Curtis of some sort handle an input that might be fluctuating more, like from a engine/generator combo?  Would I have to build some sort of buffer in order to make this a more constant flow, like a battery pack would normally do, in order to not be blowing up controllers?  Or, am I misreading what the word "variable" means in the controller specs?  Is there a dial or other setting where you tell the controller your pack voltage?

Ian
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